S2 Ep6: The Power of Conversations
SHOW NOTES
Do conversations have the power to create real change to our way of life? Are they the key to ending domestic and family violence within our community? In this special episode, Jen Brown, the host of the 2022 RAV podcast shares her thoughts and reflects on what she’s learnt from the Run Against Violence community about the power of conversations.
Also in this episode:
Meet Tammy from Not Fast Just Furious in our Team Spotlight,
a sneak peek of an upcoming episode featuring a popular return guest.
You can support the efforts of Run Against Violence by donating at https://www.runagainstviolence.com/donate
If you or someone close to you is experiencing family violence, please talk to someone. You can call 1800 RESPECT (Australia only) if you would like to talk to a professional service or if there is an immediate threat to safety call the police on Triple Zero (000) (Australia only).
THE RAV PODCAST IS ALSO AVAILABLE AT
TRANSCRIPT
Jen: So welcome back. It is just three weeks, can you believe it?, until the start of the 2022 Virtual Challenge, which is super exciting.
Now it's also episode six of this season and a very different episode from past episodes, both this season and last. Now, if you've done the Virtual Challenge before, or if you've ever participated in a sport, any sport, you'll know the importance of pacing yourself so that you can last the distance or the time or the game.
So that's what I thought we'd do with this episode. A shorter episode than normal to give you a bit of extra time to catch up on any episodes you might have missed from last season or this season.
The other thing we are doing differently with this episode is that this it's just me. A solo episode. So Kirrily Dear who, as you probably know, is one of the co-founders of RAV. She asked me to share my thoughts to reflect on what I've learned as part of the conversations I've had for this year's podcast, both the conversations we've published so far and the ones that are still to come, as well as what I learned from listening to last year's podcast. I gotta admit. This idea does not sit comfortably with me. I would much rather highlight other people's stories than share my own. But let's face it. We can't change anything in life without being a little bit uncomfortable at times. And often that involves uncomfortable conversations. So here I am.
So to give you some context about my perspective, particularly if you don't know me, it's that this is my first year, uh, officially part of the RAV community and my first time participating in the Virtual Challenge. But I have actually known Kirrily for gosh, 13-14 years now. And I actually crewed for her when she did her very first 50 kilometre event, which is way back in 2009, which gosh seems like a lifetime ago now. And I've interviewed her multiple times, for the RAV podcast back in episode one this season, but also twice before for my own podcast, which was called Sparta Chicks Radio.
The first time was in early 2017 when we reflected on her, or the original white ribbon ultra-marathon that she did in 2014 when she ran 860 kilometres over 12 days. And then I spoke to her or I interviewed her again for a second time later in 2017, before she set out on her mammoth and the original Run Against Violence from Broken Hill to Sydney in which she covered 1300 kilometres over 19 days, the same distance as the Virtual Challenge that you and I are gonna tackle very soon.
So I feel like I've been following the story, the history of RAV, the mission and the cause from the outside, looking in over many years now. And the other thing I think, that's important to mention as part of the context for what I'm about to say is that, I recognise I am super lucky to be able to say that I have not personally been affected by family and domestic violence.
have not been exposed to it at any stage of my life. So this has been a steep learning curve. And I think we all know it's one thing to hear the statistics about the rates of family and domestic violence in our community. It's another thing to acknowledge that it probably affects some of your friends or some of your family.
And I've often heard Kirrily say, once you hear the stories you can't walk away. And that has certainly been my experience. I can't walk away from RAV. I am here for the long haul.
So with that background and context in mind, what have I learned? What has RAV taught me? And what has RAV reminded me of?
The first point actually, isn't so much something I've learned after all. I have been podcasting for almost six years now, but RAV, this podcast, the conversations I've had, have reminded me of the power of conversations. Now I have heard Kirrily say probably hundreds of times over the years, that conversations is the way that we end family and domestic violence.
And I gotta be honest with you. I never really believed that. I never really believed her. I didn't understand how that could happen, how conversations could be that mechanism for change. But I think what I realised hosting my own podcast over the years, and particularly in listening to last year's episodes, as well as the conversations I've had for this year's podcast. And that is any taboo topic, with any taboo topic, the first and most important step in the process to break the taboo is to talk about it because in doing so you shine a light on it, you bring it into the light. One of my favourite quotes along these lines comes from Brené Brown. If you know me for any longer than five minutes, you'll know I quote incessantly, but she has this great quote about shame that says, um, just as the way exposure to light was deadly for the gremlins, language and story bring light to shame and destroy it..
And I think the same thing is how we break down family and domestic violence in our community. Because if you listen to the conversations with Dani or Kylie from last year's podcast, or with Sandy from this year's podcast and I will link to all of those in the show notes for this episode). Each of them acknowledged that not being able to talk about what was happening contributed to their isolation and that being able to talk about it later was also part of how they process their experience. And it played a part in their healing too.
The second thing that RAV has reminded me, it's very closely related to the first, is the power of stories. I'll be honest, I would happily choose English over Maths in High School and every day of my life since then. And having never been exposed to family and domestic violence in my own life, the statistics around the scale of the problems, they're just numbers. No offence to any mathematician or accountants listening. But for me, those numbers are meaningless without context, without stories, without the people behind them, without the people who represent those numbers.
For me, it's not until you draw, sorry. It's not until I drew a parallel between the statistics and the number of women, for example, in my inner circle that it truly took on meaning. And I think that's why stories are so important. They take numbers off the page and bring them to life. And it's another reason why our conversations are so important.
There are two other things I've realised that are closely connected to my first two points around the power of conversations and stories.
And that is firstly, hearing a person's story is a gift. I've had a few conversations with friends recently who have shared that they feel a wee bit uncomfortable about wearing their RAV gear in public, because they're scared it might open a door to a conversation, that someone might share their story with them, and they won't know what to say. They don't wanna say the wrong thing. Um, and gosh, I certainly get that. I know for me, it can be uncomfortable and daunting when someone shares a deeply personal story. And even after almost six years of podcasting, it is hard for me to ask questions that make me uncomfortable. And that's part of my job!
And it's very hard to listen to a person's story, but it is a gift. And I think the challenge that it represents is to stay present and just to listen and not to do what I think many of us do when we're having a difficult conversation is listen with one ear while thinking about how to respond with the other.
I know I've certainly done that in the past and unless someone asks for help or wants help, the greatest thing that we can do for them, the most effective thing that we can do for them, is to listen.
And the second thing I've realised, and it's more directly connected to family and domestic violence. And it is that it is incredibly important that we talk about and tell the stories of victims of family and domestic violence that don't fit the classic narrative, that don't fit the classic tale that the media spins of it. And I think many of us, especially those who have not been affected by it, when we think of family and domestic violence, the picture that comes to mind is, yes you guessed it, a male perpetrator and a female victim. But we know that's not exclusively the case and we need to talk about men being victims of it too. And we need to talk about it in the context of LGBTIQ+ relationships too. We need to shine a light on this aspect of family violence, because we can't change the culture in our community without recognising and acknowledging it occurs in relationships, that its victims cover the spectrum of gender identity and no one is safe. No one is immune.
Along the same lines I have learned, or at least it's reminded me or maybe reinforced for me, that it doesn't matter what age or stage you are in life, what class, what income level, family and domestic violence affects everyone. Can affect everyone. It's so easy to tell ourselves the story that it affects other people, whether they're older or younger or in a different income level or education level or cultural group.
It's BS. We know, we know from the statistics, we know from the stories, that it does not discriminate, none of those things matter and it affects each and every one of us.
The next point that I've learned has been a major and really important lesson for me, again, as someone who's not been exposed to any form of family and domestic violence, it's so easy, and I'm probably guilty of this six months ago, but I think it's so easy to think that it's someone else's problem and therefore someone else's responsibility to solve. I think it's easy to tell yourself the story it doesn't affect me. So how on earth am I part of the solution? Like what on earth can I do? And I think, you know, organisations like RAV, uh, events like the Virtual Challenge are a beautiful way to participate in the solution.
But I think there is more that each of us can do. More that each of us need to do. And that it's almost a daily... practice is not the right word. It's more like a daily awareness. For me, I think of it like things, it's like being open to conversations, being willing to have uncomfortable conversations when someone drops off the radar to ask, are you okay?
Another example? I think we've all been in those situations where we have walked past behaviour that makes us deeply uncomfortable, whether that's an altercation in the street or someone yelling at a person that they're with in a cafe or inappropriate behaviour on public transport. I know I have, and I'm certainly not saying it's our responsibility to jump in the middle.
You know, certainly in first aid training, they teach you the first step is to check for danger, both to the patient and equally importantly to yourself. But part of changing the culture and the responsibility that each of us has is not to look the other way, not to put our blinkers on, to ignore it, to walk past it, to tell yourself it's not my problem. And someone else is gonna sort it out. It's when appropriate, speaking up. Taking action, calling it out.
If you're in Australia, you'll probably remember the speech delivered by the chief of the army Lieutenant General David Morrison. When he said the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. And I think the same applies whether it's inappropriate behaviour in our workplaces, in our homes, in our families, in our streets: the standard we walk past is the standard we accept.
And if we are walking past family and domestic violence in whatever form it takes, then we are doing nothing to ultimately change the culture.
Finally, if there's one thing, I think that almost every conversation I've heard either in creating this season's podcast or in listening to last seasons is around isolation. And Dani talked about it during last season's podcast. And Sandy mentioned it in our conversation earlier this year. Both mentioned how their abusers had been very controlling and essentially isolated them from both their friends and their family. And I know, God I do it myself all the time. It is so easy to get caught up in our own busy lives that we don't notice when a friend or a loved one drifts away or goes a bit quiet.
And look, there are a thousand reasons why someone might drift away, a relationship change, priorities change. But for me going forward, one thing that I'm very much want to keep in mind, and of course this is not just a family and domestic violence issue, but a mental health question too. But this podcast RAV has certainly reminded me of the importance of checking in of asking if people are okay. Especially when people go quiet and letting the people that I care about, know that I am available to talk. And if they need to call me in the middle of the night, I am here for it. And I am here for them.
So that has been my experience, my lessons, my learnings so far. As I mentioned at the start Kirrily is right. Once you've heard the stories, you cannot look away and I am here for it. I'm here for the long haul and I hope you are too.
It's time for our weekly team Spotlight. It is only three weeks to go until the start of the 2022 RAV Virtual Challenge. If you want to join the Challenge, don't forget, registrations are now open. So make sure you register your team and organise a few friends to join you. But if you don't have a team and still want to be involved, please head to the website.
You can register on the website and the amazing people behind the scenes at RAV will help to find you a team. So as always in each episode, we're going to highlight and hear from one of the amazing teams who are participating in the Challenge. This year for today's episode, you'll meet Tammy from the fabulously named Not Fast, Just Furious.
Now, just a heads up. There's a crackle in the line during Tammy's segment. I have done my best to clean it up, but I'd encourage you to stick with it because Tammy has some really important words to share.
Tammy: I am the captain of Not Fast, Just Furious. And we have done this every single year. We've managed to keep our name every single time that it has been a fight just about every year, because apparently it's a really good name.
So we've had to go back to the organisers begging for us to keep it and they've kindly let us do it. So this year being able to go on earlier and get the team all set up, I was so surprised that I managed to get him before anybody else nabbed the name, which was really, really good.
The team came about in 2017. I saw it mentioned on the Running Mum's Australia Facebook page. And it was something that I really. It wasn't even so much wanted to do. I needed to do it. I needed to help facilitate, be a voice for an organisation that brought to the fore a topic that cannot be taboo. It needs to be spoken about.
So I put a message out on the Running Mum's Australia Facebook page to see if I could get a team together. And we ended up with a team of 10 from Wollongong all the way up to Northern Territory and people from every single walk of life, but every single one of us passionate about domestic violence and, and trying out into the community, get it talked about, make it so that it's not something that has to be behind closed doors.
It really needs to be talked about, and then it won't be something that everybody's scared to talk. So mostly we've kept the team together and we've now grown to 20. And it's something that we look forward to every single year in particular, those the last couple of hours where everybody just goes nuts or texting and phoning, and just trying to get as many Ks under the belt as possible.
It is something that's very, very close to my heart. I do come from a rather dysfunctional upbringing. And I think all of my siblings have fought their demons as well to realise that this has not something that is a child's fault. We are part of an unfortunate train of events.
But as a child, when you're in a situation that is not safe, you can't help think that you are responsible to a certain extent. Part of this is, I guess, to tell everybody that there are safe havens, and there are people out there that care and want to help.
Jen: Finally a sneak peek at one of our upcoming episodes with a returning guest. In fact, the first returning guest in the entire history of the RAV podcast. So Dani shared her story with Kirrily during last year's podcast, which actually was the most popular episode from the year. Briefly, Dani's story is that in 2017, she was interstate visiting a friend when she received a phone call from the police. Six detectives had arrived at her house that morning and arrested her controlling, abusive ex-husband though not on charges related to domestic violence, but she will share what those charges were in that episode. So that was the first time Dani actually publicly shared her story. She talked about her life before that day, her shock and bewilderment of what she learned from the police and the steps that she'd taken since, and up to the point of that conversation to recover her physical, mental, and emotional health.
Now, as I mentioned, RAV's theme for this year is today's conversations is tomorrow's way of life and about the fact that conversation is how we change the culture in our community, around domestic and family violence. So with that in mind, I wanted to get Dani back on the podcast this year and talk to her about the impact that telling her story publicly has had, and the conversations that have ensued as a result. She'll be back in a few weeks to share more, but here is a sneak peek from our chat.
Jen: So, what about with your inner circle and family? You mentioned in that episode, that even some of your family didn't realise what was happening at the time, or they didn't realise the extent of it. What's been the impact of you sharing your story on those relationships and the type and the depth of conversations that you might now have with?
Dani: Yeah, that's been really interesting actually. I've got a great relationship with my parents and my brother. But even for mum and I to be able to have like, say deeper conversations about it and getting her version of what she was witnessing. And her version on what she thought she could and couldn't do at the time, even when she had concerns. Even to get my dad's version of, you know, his concerns during our relationship, but again, not knowing what he could do because he didn't wanna essentially lose his daughter if he made the wrong move or made the wrong comment, despite feeling that something was off.
So it's a really tricky one. It is a real ripple effect. And I think it's been spoken about a lot before that people might witness things in other people's relationships, but there's such a culture of oh, don't get involved. Like, you know, what goes on behind closed doors? It's such an ingrained culture.
But yeah, you wonder what, what could have happened if people had have spoken up and actually offered assistance or said, Hey, I notice this going on. That's not right. And I did have some friends at the time, sort of gently making those comments and I think it did, they did impact my way of thinking at the time. But it's such a long slow process because getting involved in that situation is quite often a long, slow process that bubbles over time. It's generally not an instantaneous thing. So, yeah, so that has been interesting having those conversations with my parents,
Jen: So that's it for this week's episode of the 2022 RAV podcast. Thank you so much for being here. We would love it if you would share this episode with one person or your entire team, I'm Jen Brown and I will chat to you next week. Bye for now.